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Segment 1: “We’re going to war.”

Our guest on this edition of The Doug Noll Show is no stranger to war and espionage. Art Keller is a former CIA officer who served in the Counter-Proliferation Division, a unit responsible for spying on and sabotaging Weapons of Mass Destruction programs. He also has worked on terrorism cases and his last assignment was as acting Chief of Base in the tribal areas of Pakistan.

 

Art’s personal journey began after high school, when he joined the army and then studied foreign affairs in college. His interest in foreign affairs led him to apply to the CIA and after an arduous selection process (he applied multiple times, and later found out that was the norm) he was accepted into the CIA organization. He wound up in the Counter-Proliferation Division with instructions to keep an eye on weapons of mass destruction. It was Art’s job to cover Iran’s missile program, and he does not believe that Saddam Hussein ever had weapons of mass destruction (WMD). However, his Chief of Station returned from headquarters and announced that “the decision had already been made: we’re going to war.” It was shocking.

 

Segment 2: A Corrupted Process.

In order to make the best policies, the policy makers need to know what’s really happening in a particular area. If we shape our intelligence around our policy objective (instead of the other way around) the process will be corrupted. Art spent a few months in 2003 and 2004 near Baghdad in 140 degree weather looking for weapons in the desert. By August 2003 it was clear to him that he was just going through the motions, but he had his marching orders and dutifully followed them out. He became certain there were no WMDs to be found. No one came forward with any viable information.

 

Segment 3: The Slow and Meticulous Dance.

The negotiations have resumed with Iran and the West over Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Historically, peacemaking arms control has been a very slow and meticulous dance. There is a lot of distrust. From the viewpoint of the U.S., Iran hasn’t wanted to negotiate in good faith. Art says Iranians think very differently from us, but they do think. They have a very keenly developed sense of their own self-interest, which does not include having their whole country destroyed. A lot of it has to do with national pride. For example, they can’t believe Pakistan has a nuclear weapon and they don’t.

 

Art is greatly concerned about Israel and how they take actions without considering American interest. They have a proven record of bombing other people’s nuclear facilities (Iraq and Syria) as well as assassinating weapon scientists. It is an established pattern.

 

Segment 4: It’s Not About the Gadgets.

The CIA’s definition of assassination is killing someone - usually for political reasons - from a country with whom you are not at war. Art’s book, Hollow Strength, is about assassinations, secrets and espionage. It’s technically fiction but is based on his real life experiences. Human Intelligence is not about gadgets; it’s about relationships with people. Ask yourself this question: How bad would it have to be in your own country for you to be a spy for another country?  

 

To listen to the complete interview:

 

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Segment 1: The Three Myths that Perpetuate War.

Our guest on this edition of The Doug Noll Show is Paul Chappell. Paul graduated from West Point in 2002 and served in the army for 7 years before leaving active duty in 2009 as a Captain. He is the author of a number of books and currently serves as the Peace Leadership Director for the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation, speaking throughout the country to colleges, high schools, veterans groups, churches and activist organizations.

 

Paul believes there are three myths that perpetuate war: first, human beings are naturally violent. Second, war is inevitable, and third, war makes us safe. Regarding the first myth, we are not born killers and do not have an innate desire to kill people, although there are all sorts of factors that cause people to become violent. Violence is taught by life experience and by our environment.

 

Segment 2: To Conquer or Be Conquered.

The second myth is that war is inevitable. This is a dangerous myth because as a country you only have two options: to be the conqueror or the conquered. In the U.S. we are considered to be culturally evolved and civilized, but if you look at countries like Afghanistan or Africa, they still see the world in terms of a power struggle. However, it is possible to renounce the use of war in one generation (i.e. Japan or Germany) especially if it is believed that it is their own best interest not to be waging war.

 

Segment 3: Peaceful Revolution.

The third myth is that war makes us safe. A lot of people believe that war is necessary to protect us from invasion, which is a philosophy based on fear. Paul believes virtually everyone wants peace, but they disagree on the means of achieving peace.

 

Trying to end war without understanding human nature is like trying to go to the moon without understanding the law of physics, so in Paul’s latest book, Peaceful Revolution, he sets out to research human nature within the context of war. Once we understand human nature we can pave a new path and look at alternatives to help us live in harmony. Paul looks at a large sample size (every war in human history) and finds that in every war the two sides dehumanize each other. He also discovers that in every war the propaganda says that people are fighting for something noble like protection of freedom (never for greed or money). These are universal truths in every culture and every time period and he uses them to make assertions about human nature and our powerful instincts.

 

Segment 4: The Mysteries of Human Nature.

So how do we go about teaching people about the positive values in human nature? Paul explores topics like empathy, hope, appreciation, discipline, curiosity and takes them out of the moral context and puts them into the context of human survival and human happiness. These attributes are vital for human survival and lead to more fulfilling and meaningful lives. Our commonalities transcend our differences. This is the path to peace.

 

To listen to the complete interview:

 

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Military force shouldn’t be ruled out as a response to an Iranian assassination plot on U.S. soil, the top House Republican on intelligence issues said on ABC’s “This Week.”

“I don’t think you should take it off the table,” said Representative Mike Rogers, the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Rogers said other options would include rallying the international community against Iran or taking action against Iranian operatives in Iraq. Noticeably absent was any mention of aggressive non-violent or even peaceful ways of responding to the Iranian assassination attempt.

This is an another example of a way of thinking that is dangerous to the future of America. The idea is that violence or the threat of violence must be responded to with overwhelming pre-emptive violence. It rejects the law of lex talionis, an eye for an eye, which calls for restraint in the exercise of retributive power. One of the unintended consequences of having the most powerful military in human history is the belief that vexing problems can be solved with overwhelming, brute force. It didn't work for the Romans, and it will not work for America.

International relations has been a contact sport for a long time. But how foolish is it to consider a military operation against Iran? Iran poses no existential threat to the United States. Its government, while annoying, is in internal disarray. Its political, economic, and moral power is so weak that it must resort to terrorism and assassination to carry out its international agenda. It threatens to develop nuclear capabilities, but knows that Israel would not hesitate to snuff it out if the threat truly materialized.

Publicly considering military options against Iran is therefore beyond stupid. This kind of retributive, vengeful thinking has led us to a trillion dollar deficit caused by unbridled military spending and two wars in the first ten years of this century. Neither war, by the way, has turned out well for America.

The Iranians know that the US will not be flying Predators over Isfahan or dropping cruise missles into downtown Tehran. They are undoubtedly embarrassed at being caught in a clumsy, amateurish assassinaton attempt against the Saudi Ambassador to the US. But the idea that the US would respond to a botched assassination attempt with military force is ludicrous. First, the assassination attempt was aganst a Saudi official, not an American. It would seem that the fight would be between the Arabs and the Persians, not the US and the Persians.

Second, the US military budget is already stretched to the breaking point in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya. Does the Congress intend to come to the people of America asking if yet another war should be funded by an increase in taxes? Ironically, Mr. Rogers of the party that wants to dismantle government and elimnate all taxes, suggests that another expensive military adventure should be on the table. Fourth, even if the American people wanted a war with Iran, the vast majority of US allies do not.  A US military option is not a realistic or appropriate response to the assassination attempt.

Unfortunately, this kind of primitive thinking about the use of power permeates Washington.  One would hope that more thoughtful leaders would step forward to decry the wrong notion that attempted violence must always be met with overwhelming retributive violence. There are many other ways to respond effectively to this type of petty aggression. We need some maturity in the halls of power to prevent the further decline of America into a reactive, fear-based international tyrant.

Douglas Noll, Lawyer Turned Peacemaker, is the author of Elusive Peace: How Modern Diplomatic Strategies Could Better Resolve World Conflicts (Prometheus Books 2011).