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Segment 1: Perceptions of Reality.

Our guest on this edition of The Doug Noll Show is Roger Frame, President of Frameworks 4 Learning. Roger is an expert on resolving interpersonal conflict, defusing power struggles and preventing bullying. His book is called Don’t Carve the Turkey with a Chainsaw: Resolving Family Conflict. He comes from the psychotherapy perspective and thinks the single biggest cause of human conflict is differences of perspective. People view conflict as based on reality, when in fact it’s based on our perceptions of reality. Conflict is not something you can completely avoid (nor should we try to avoid it, as it usually brings people closer together once it is resolved). If we don’t have resistance, we cannot grow as human beings. The whole point of conflict is to alert us to the fact that there are things to which we need to pay attention.

Segment 2: Adopt a Curious Attitude.

In terms of holiday conflict, when relatives get together there are often repeated patterns that come up every year. It’s difficult for people to recognize these patterns, and the person who brings up the issue usually (unconsciously) has a vested interest in keeping it alive. So why would a reasonable, rational intelligent person do this? Adults play out the conflicts of their childhood and the dynamic stays the same. When you encounter an issue with a family member, ask the question, “I’m curious. What makes you want to keep bringing this up?” Having the presence of mind to ask a question like this takes practice and self-control. The most difficult thing is to stay present with yourself so that when someone pushes your buttons you can respond with compassion and clarity, even when you are angry. Instead of attacking back and reacting with anger, adopt a curious attitude.

Segment 3: Ignore the Words and Focus on the Emotion.

Listening is a powerful skill that needs to be taught. People don’t know how to listen or ask effective questions. Roger thinks we should ignore the words and focus on emotions. Repeat back the emotional experience of the person you’re speaking with at that moment. In doing that, you touch something deep and the brain starts to calm. In the brain, the emotional content goes to one neuropathway and the cognitive content goes to another neuropathway. When you recognize the emotion in a situation – and mirror it back – the emotional centers of the brain deescalate.

Segment 4: In Roger’s book he references many fly fishing analogies for conflict resolution. For example, kids bait their parents and know exactly what lure their parents will bite. As water warms up in a river, fish bite on different insects. Also, there are certain times of day when mom (or dad) is tired and kids know they can ask for and get what they want. Timing is everything. If you draw your fly rod back and start the forward movement too quickly, the fly will snap off. It’s the same with communication: if you interrupt someone too quickly, the conversation will snap off. Lastly, when casting in fly fishing, you must move backward before you go forward. When you are involved in conflict resolution, if you can pause and go backward a bit, it opens up the space to move forward. It creates a safe space for someone to be heard.

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Segment 1: Dialogue Where There Is Division.

Our guest on this edition of The Doug Noll Show is Aakif Ahmad, co-founder and Vice President of Convergence, a non-profit, non-partisan organization “dedicated to bringing dialogue where there is division, consensus where there is conflict and solutions where there is stalemate on issues of national consequence.” Through Convergence, Aakif helps Americans and Pakistanis work together as well as Democrats and Republicans work together. He’s found that there isn’t much space for our elected officials to cooperate because they are tied to lobbyists and it is difficult to identify where common ground is possible. However, there is a shift in how people see each other when they’re able to step back from the positions for which they’ve been advocating and identify the values from which those positions come. Personal narratives begin to be articulated and they discover places where they can work together to achieve common goals. It is a patient process, and Convergence has benefitted from supporters who want to be part of something geared toward problem-solving.

Segment 2: An Inclusive and Safe Space.

One of the goals that Convergence works towards is not only to identify a framework that feels inclusive and safe for the stakeholders, but also to attain a level of creative thinking. It is through creative thinking and open dialogue folks begin to conceive of ways to work together. Even major stakeholders working on opposite sides of issues can flourish in this environment.

There is no bias on the outside of the process. Convergence looks for a series of indicators that suggests that a particular issue and the stakeholders around that issue have reached a point where the fight is no longer leading to incremental gains. Research is a large part of the process. They do a tremendous amount of research to find “ripe” issues that might find success with a different approach.

Segment 3: The U.S. and Pakistan Relationship.

Convergence has organized a series of events in Pakistan and Washington D.C. where Pakistanis and Americans with leadership roles outside of government have a chance to meet and get to know each other as groups. They talk candidly about their relationship and their hopes, dreams, concerns and fears for their countries. It is at that moment when positions evaporate and common values arise. The groups realize they can work together and that it’s not just a conversation about fear; it’s a conversation about opportunity.

Segment 4: The Momentum Continues to Grow.

There is no “one size fits all” approach, and not every issue is ripe and ready to seek an alternative approach. It’s a sincere privilege for the folks at Convergence to assist stakeholders working toward a common vision. Convergence has been around for 3 years and the momentum continues to grow. Their hope is that they can help their current stakeholders achieve the breakthroughs they are striving towards, as well be in a position to extend their services to others through continued support and resources. To learn more about Convergence, please visit their website: http://www.convergencepolicy.org/.>

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Segment 1: We Live in a World of Stories.

Our guest on this edition of The Doug Noll Show is Dr. Amy Zalman (http://strategic-narrative.net/). Amy has worked to develop more culturally astute approaches to national security for over a decade. She is an expert on the strategic role of language and narratives in international affairs and violent conflict, and an authority on how the U.S. can better understand end engage foreign publics.

Amy has always had three enduring interests: language, political violence, and learning about foreign places. She finds that poetry and storytelling speaks to metaphor which in turn speaks to a different part of our brain. This enables people to look at problems – and solutions – in creative ways, which is crucial in the political and security arena. It is important to understand that we live inside this flow in order to work with others and have a positive influence.

Segment 2: The Myth of Redemptive Violence.

There is a myth in society that violence redeems evil and brings chaos under control. This is the “myth of redemptive violence” and it permeates every cartoon and every dramatic movie in society today. This plays out in our political affairs and in our culture. People respond to conflict that results in violence rather than stepping back and asking questions, learning skills, engaging in dialogue and thinking about possible implications. As a culture, we think violence is the answer to all of our problems. Yet, when we engage in violence we find that we spend enormous amounts of time and money trying to control events with power and force when we actually have no control at all. This “myth of redemptive violence” is one of the reasons that peace is so hard to achieve.

Segment 3: The Struggle to Reframe our Thinking.

Amy says there is a debate in Washington right now about whether the U.S. is in decline and how it should project itself within the world. We are in the middle of a battle to decide what kind of country we need to be in the world: one of community or one that continues to use force. Amy speaks with high-level personnel in the defense department and helps them reframe their thinking and their national stories. She often asks them, “Why would another country want YOUR story? They have their OWN national story.”

Segment 4: The Three Ways to Increase Power.

Strategic narrative within conflict resolution requires treading carefully around the parties and respecting their missions. There are three ways to be powerful enough to get people to do what you want them to do: you can coerce them, you can induce them with carrots on sticks, or you can attract/seduce them. You can get them to want what you want because you are so attractive. Amy encourages the military personnel to think about their own culture and who they are. This evokes some of the skills that they have with their own identity, which in turn helps them become more effective at peacemaking.

To listen to the complete interview:

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